Minutes - 7/2009
Wednesday, July 22, 2009 2:30 PM

Community Council Meeting Minutes
June 21, 2009
Page 1 of 8
District 10 Community Council
Community Council Meeting
Historic Streetcar Station
July 21, 2009 - 7:00 p.m.
Meeting Minutes
Directors present: David Arbeit, Ted Sheu, Lori Klongtruatroke, Scott Baker, Barbara Clark,
Marcy Micek, Matt Schmitt, Ken Kunkle, Mike MacDonald, Chris Harkness, Chris Martineau,
Barbara Frick, Karl Koch, Misty Havens.
Directors absent: Sehoya Cotner
Directors excused:
Staff present: Camille Schafer, Rhonda DeBough Insook, Josh Witte (Intern)
1. Call to Order
by David Arbeit at 7:10pm
2. Review, Amend, Approve Agenda.
Chris Martineau motioned for approval. Ted Sheu seconded. Agenda approved
3. Community section
a. Lexington/Larpenteur/California/MGM Issues (Ted Sheu)
The Lexington-Larpenteur ad hoc committee has been meeting regularly. The City
has requested a site plan from MGM, which they have provided. There is no other
news to report.
b. Traffic and Parking Issues (Martineau, Insook, Stiffler)
The July issue of the Midway Monitor included an article about traffic issues in the
Como area. Chris Martineau reported that the Neighborhood Relations committee
meetings have discussed issues related to the shuttle, parking, traffic & safety in the
park. Some residents in the Midway area have discussed petitioning the City for
parking restrictions, specifically permit parking. District 10 has no position about this
issue, though some people have interpreted the Monitor article to have reported that.
Chris reported that the Neighborhood Relations committee has discussed how permit
parking might affect the rest of the neighborhood and expected the City to conduct a
“mock” study by placing no parking signs in the western side of the neighborhood for
a weekend. David Arbeit asked about the mock study date. Chris thought it would be
the first weekend in August.
Elizabeth Stiffler (St. Paul Traffic Engineering) spoke about how they are looking at
the issue. She noted concern about the “big picture” in that what happens on one
Community Council Meeting Minutes
June 21, 2009
Page 2 of 8
block affects those around it. The City has conducted three parking studies (May &
July of this year) to assess how the neighborhoods are impacted by parking and is
interested in conducting the mock study (see map). It would test the impact of no
parking for anyone from 10am to 4pm from Friday to Sunday. She considered the
best weekend to be Aug 14th-16th. Elizabeth also stated that permit parking is not the
only option. There could be a modification of the State Fair parking regulations, no
parking on weekends, limited time zones in limited areas, and the parking on Hamline
could be limited to the other side of the street. David Arbeit asked her if she was
committing to a mock study in August. She said that the study would only be
conducted if the Board requested it. David noted that since the Board will not meet
again until August 18th, that would not be possible.
David then asked Elizabeth how a resident goes about seeking residential permit
parking. Dennis O’Rourke and Chai Insook reported that they are interested in permit
parking and noted that City code allowed neighbors to petition the City without
District Council approval. Panod Klongtruatroke expressed concern about parking
being “pushed” out to his house on Midway and Arona, which already is impacted by
parkers on weekends. Another resident also expressed concern about restricting
parking in one area will affect other areas and suggested limited parking to one side
of the street. Chai expressed his interest in something now to alleviate parking as
there has been a large increase in traffic resulting from improvements at the Como
Zoo. He thought that one-sided parking would only make residents compete for
spaces and would not be a good solution. A District 6 resident spoke about Como
Park traffic affecting her neighborhood and noted that restricting parking in a small
area in District 10 would affect traffic in her neighborhood as well. She felt that a
more coordinated approach to parking was needed. A community member expressed
concern that delaying action about the parking issue could defer any relief for years
and would be a bad idea. Elizabeth Stiffler said she would be willing to meet with the
community over the winter if the community would like to do that.
David asked Chris Martineau to discuss options for a parking test with the
Neighborhood Relations committee and bring a resolution back to the Board in
August. David also explained that residents have the right to pursue permit parking
as provided for by City statutes without requiring Board approval. He noted that the
Neighborhood Relations committee meetings are open to community members and
encouraged participation.
c. Como Pool Update/Discussion (Ganje, Milgrom, Kunkle)
David introduced this discussion by noting the Como Pool Planning Task Force had
recommended a pool design by a vote of 7 to 2 and that the Parks Commission
unanimously approved the plan on July 15. He also noted that two members of the
Como Pool Task Force prepared a minority report describing their concerns about the
design and the process. Marsha Milgrom, the District 10 representative to the Task
Force was one of the authors of that report, but David noted that the views expressed
were not positions of the Board, which has not taken a position about the pool. This
discussion item is on the agenda because Board member Ken Kunkle has asked for
Board action on a more limited resolution, not supporting the plan but supporting
funding for a replacement pool.
Community Council Meeting Minutes
June 21, 2009
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Don Ganje from the St. Paul Parks and Recreation Department spoke about City
efforts to replace the pool since 1999. Twelve task force members where chosen
from the community to represent a cross-section of groups, including residents in the
area. On their 7th meeting, the task force voted on a final design that was refined as a
result of two public design “charrette” involving more than 250 members of the
public. The design process considered parking, roads, the Como Outdoor Woodland
Classroom and other issues aside from the pool itself. The Task Force approved the
plan with a 7-2 vote. Next, the pool design went to the Parks Commission where it
passed unanimously. There is currently no funding to build the pool, but the City is
exploring funding options.
David Arbeit asked what happens now that the Parks Commission has approved it
since it is not included as a recommendation in the Capital Improvements Budget.
Don responded that they have some other funding sources and the general plan is to
implement the pool in phases as funding becomes available. David asked about
details of the phasing and how the City would consider the impact upon traffic and
parking in the surrounding neighborhoods. Don said that parking needs would be
included in any stage of implementation so that the phase would be totally “self
contained.” However, transportation changes such as the new roads on Como and
Beulah might come later and they would add more parking.
Michael Hahm, Director of Parks and Recreation and a Como Avenue resident, spoke
about funding and the parking for the pool. He also talked about bather loads and that
the Como pool plan is a smaller bather load than the Highland Aquatic Center. The
existing bather load was over 300 at Como pool. It will be around 540 with this new
design. Highland Aquatic Center has a bather load of 824.
Marsha Milgrom spoke about the task force process and the minority report. She will
correct the report so that it does not state that it is a Board position. She wanted to
explain why she voted no in a 7-2 vote. In addition to the two Task Force members
who have put their names on the report, she reported that another Task Force member
supports the minority position. They felt that the process was too quick and that all of
her questions were not addressed. She felt that the final design was not necessarily a
full representation of what the task force had agreed to. The economics where also a
concern for her, including maintenance. She talked a lot to Don Ganje about bather
load and capacity being 540 and there was talk about there being an 800 person
bather load.
Susan Janda, a resident of District 6 and member of the Task Force expressed concern
about the larger size of the pool in regards to traffic and congestion. She thought that
the pool planning process was mostly successful, but she would like to see a limit on
amenities in the park that would result in more traffic in Como neighborhoods.
Community member Deloris Raufnecht asked about keeping track of capacity.
Michael Hahm said that bather & capacity loads are very much the same thing. The
fire code number is not the same as the bather load. The bather load is the design
limit of the pool and used to limit the number of swimmers, not the fire code. Deloris
was concerned about parking not being adequate to meet the bather load. Mr. Hahm
noted that the new shuttle will help with the parking situation and that future plans
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June 21, 2009
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will include some combination of additional buses, weekday bus use, and longer
hours. There will also be a large-picture study done with the goal of reducing traffic
and parking impact to an acceptable level.
John Marino asked whether the pool would be rented to private parties. Director
Hahm explained that all of the Parks pools are available for rent, but that it is not
common, other than at the Oxford pool, where birthday party rentals are popular. He
believes that most of the rental users are people who live near the pool facility. The
activity would not go past 10pm.
Art Oglesby asked about marketing money to push the shuttle and not build a parking
ramp. Hahm explained that parking has been added, but that permeable surface has
been reduced. Additional parking may be needed, but that there will be an emphasis
on other options like the shuttle – adding service, another bus, etc.
A Task Force member (no name given) spoke about how she felt the task force
process was successful. She also discussed the bather load and how that number is
higher than would be allowed in the pool at any one time.
Community member, Sally Wurku spoke about wanting to enhance the 19th Century
design and natural beauty of the park. She also spoke about the task force only being
allowed to discuss the 1st phase of the park and not phases 2 or 3.
Hahm explained that when looking at the pool they and the community looked at the
pool, McMurray field, and the woodlands classroom in order to make it work best for
all three. As for the lazy river and the rocks – they are unique features and features
like a wave pool or water slides were rejected because they did not meet the footprint
and the aesthetics of the surrounding landscape.
Ken Kunkle spoke about his resolution. He noted that the pool rated high on every
CIB funding report until the last round when it was dropped because of concerns
about the pool amenities. He wants the Council to go on record that the community
does need a pool, regardless of what design is selected. He noted that responses to the
Como Park Alliance survey showed strong community support for new pool.
David noted that the proposed resolution notes only that a comparable pool replace
the pool that was demolished.
Sally Wurku spoke about the adopted 1984 park plan, which stated that the pool will
be upgraded and that she felt a resolution wasn’t needed. David explained that the
plan is 25 years old and that a Board resolution would emphasize the importance of
the pool.
Chai Insook spoke about while there may be support for a pool in the park, he does
not see a need for this resolution since a pool will be built eventually. Ken disagreed,
noting that it is important that the community shows support for a pool.
Barbra Clark explained that her family used the pool regularly and that a pool is
important. She felt that Ken is simply stating that there are many members in the
community (many under 18) that want a pool and that showing community support
needs to be shown to the City.
Community Council Meeting Minutes
June 21, 2009
Page 5 of 8
Katie Griggs spoke about not understanding the need for the resolution by the Board
since a pool has already been approved by the Parks Commission. David explained
that there has not been any funding allotted to the pool, and that is what this
resolution is asking for. Ken asked if she feels that this resolution harms things and
how. She explained that she felt the vague wording could be exploited.
Vicky Stewart, a pool Task Force member and resident of District 10, thanked the
Board for putting this resolution up for vote. She explained that it is hard to have a
neighborhood pool in a regional park. She feels that it is a good pool and that there
needs to be community support by passing this resolution or there will not be a pool;
there will not be funding.
Marsha Milgrom noted that there is little support for the lazy river and no studies
showing that seniors benefit from the lazy river. Ken disagreed, describing well
documented uses of moving water for aerobic exercises, especially for seniors.
Chai Insook expressed his view that building the pool would be irresponsible as it
would aggravate parking and traffic for the surrounding community. Barbara Clark
asked about the parking already being addressed in the design. Chai stated that the
additional parking spaces not being enough and that passing the resolution is
David asked if Board members would favor adding wording about parking. He and
another member felt that doing so would begin to go into the design plan and should
not be allowed. Several Board members thought this would not be appropriate.
David suggested moving the Board vote on Ken’s resolution to first thing on the
agenda to allow for a vote with the community present. Barbara Clark moved. Mike
MacDonald seconded. (The discussion and vote happened at this time but is recorded
in the minutes in the original agenda sequence.)
4. Review, Amend, Approve June Minutes
David asked to change “were” to “was” on page 3. No other amendments.
Marcy moved to approve the June minutes, as amended.
Matt seconded.
Approved unanimously.
5. Board Updates
a. Board Chair Report (Arbeit)
David noted that letters he was directed by the Board in June to write to Mayor
Coleman about District Council funding and to Carole Swenson of the District
Council Collaborative are in the agenda packet. He gave special recognition to Matt
Schmitt, Misty Havens, Panod Klongtruatroke and Communications Committee
members for the wonderful work they did to design and implement the Council’s new
web site. Also to Matt and his committee for arranging for distribution of the
newsletter in the Midway Monitor, which for the first time provides for newsletter
distribution to the Energy Park area. He also acknowledged work by Camille and
Marcy for improving Council financial procedures and processing City
reimbursement claims, which now ensures that finances are healthy.
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June 21, 2009
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b. Treasurer report – Marcy Micek
Marcy noted the financial reports in the packet and thanked Camille for her work.
c. Staff report - Staff
Rhonda reported about the Council participation in the Senior Fair at Lyngblomstem
and her outreach to apartment managers, including those in the Energy Park area.
There was a good turn out at the Senior Fair, including Board members. She would
like to see some of the seniors becoming involved in Board activities. Josh has been
working on getting community events in the Google calendar.
d. Committee reports – Committee Chairs
Matt Schmitt (Communications Committee)
Matt reported that the new web site will include a regular monthly update by Deb
Robinson about the ash borer problem.
Ken Kunkle (Neighborhood Safety Committee)
Ken reported that National Night Out is August 4 and that he or Rhonda are working
to get packets for the event to block leaders and others planning to hold events.
Chris Martineau (Neighborhood Relations Committee)
There will be a party of 1,500 on Aug. 16th at the park. They may be bussed in from a
remote site, which Parks has encouraged them to do.
Mike MacDonald – (Environment Committee)
Mike reported that the Committee has recently been holding outdoor events. He also
reported that the Rain Barrel Workshop expenses have been paid.
Barbara Frick (Lexington ad hoc)
There are two upcoming meetings on July 27th & Aug 10th. The public is welcome at
these meetings. The task force adopted a charter that is a good example.
Marcy (Development)
Marcy encouraged Board member involvement in the committee. The committee is
working on a template for those seeking funding that is almost ready for Board
6. Discussion Items
a. National Night Out (Staff)
(See Ken’s update)
b. Neighborhood Cleanup (Staff)
Dennis O’Rourke is organizing a neighborhood clean up in the community. Rhonda
encouraged Board members to sign up.
7. Action Items
a. COPP Grant Request (Schafer)
Requested Action: Approve proposal for Ward 5 COPP Grant
The grant would be used to produce a Council brochure and a Community Resource
Guide. The motion was included in the Board packet.
Community Council Meeting Minutes
June 21, 2009
Page 7 of 8
Motioned by David Arbeit
Seconded by Ken Kunkle
Action item passed unanimously
b. Outreach Through Yoga (DeBough)
Requested Action: Approve recommendation to sponsor Como Park Yoga classes as
outreach opportunity.
The yoga classes would be offered by Bliss Yoga, a local business. It would provide
an opportunity to inform community members about the Council and serve as an
example of a partnership with a local business. Participants will be asked to provide a
voluntary donation. The Council will receive a portion of the donations.
Motioned by Marcy Micek
Seconded by Matt Schmitt
Action item passed unanimously
c. Como Pool Replacement (Kunkle)
Requested action: Support replacement of Como pool
Motioned by Ken Kunkle
Seconded by Marcy Micek
Original motion was included in Board packet.
Scott Baker asked if Ken would consider a friendly amendment to make it clear that
the Board was not supporting a specific pool plan or design. He suggested: “This
resolution is not intended to support any particular design.”
Karl Koch felt that not passing this resolution by the Board without an amendment
would not be a good thing for the community.
Ted Sheu felt that he was planning to vote against the resolution as originally
presented, but that he probably would support it with the amendment.
Chris Martineau suggested adding language that included parking. The other Board
members felt that went into design. Ken noted that he would not consider this as a
friendly amendment. Chris agreed not to add it.
Barbara Frick suggested removing the word “comparable” from the resolution and
also to remove the clause fully funded “by the city.” Ken agreed to offer his
resolution with these changes.
The final resolution, with friendly amendments, was accepted by Ken to read as
“Therefore, be it resolved, that the Board of the District 10 Community Council
requests a replacement of the public pool facility, previously located in Como Park,
should be fully funded in an expeditious manner.
Further Resolved, that this resolution is not intended to support any particular
Action Item, as amended, passed unanimously.
Community Council Meeting Minutes
June 21, 2009
Page 8 of 8
d. Other
Lori Klongtruatroke read a statement regarding the Como Park Alliance and the need
for transparency and integrity in their communications with the community and the
Board. The statement will be sent to the Como Park Alliance.
A community member on Midway spoke about vending getting out of control on
Midway Parkway during the fair. He reported that he spoke to Parks Director Mike
Hahm about putting up no vending signs on the parkway. David explained that the
Board has no authority to control signage but confirmed that Parks probably is the
right agency to handle this.
8. Adjourn
Meeting adjourned at 10:10pm
Minutes prepared by Lori Klongtruatroke

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